From david.nattan at btinternet.com Fri Nov 6 12:11:36 2009 From: david.nattan at btinternet.com (DAVID NATTAN) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 04:11:36 -0800 (PST) Subject: [LU] non LU - FSF petition Message-ID: <489721.84645.qm@web86110.mail.ird.yahoo.com> The links may not work (c & p) from email - but I am sure if you want you can find via Football Supporters Federation site - YOU could be next - anyone who travels by train knows how we are treated, on occasion by the police Dave ? Sign our petition and oppose fan bans A group of Sunderland supporters have launched a petition against their club?s decision to ban them from the Stadium of Light. Some of the group have been arrested, but not charged, for their involvement in an incident between fans and police in August. These supporters have continually maintained that they are innocent of any crime and were shocked and outraged to receive notice that they have been banned from attending Sunderland games last week, nearly three months after the event. Unfortunately, the FSF has noticed more and more clubs banning supporters first and asking questions later and we urge all football fans to stand together against this decision. Why are fans treated differently to the rest of society? Why are we guilty until proven innocent? Please follow this link to sign the petition and pledge your support. Thank you. Want to find out more about the full incident? Click here From rickd at ntlworld.com Fri Nov 6 12:16:52 2009 From: rickd at ntlworld.com (Rick Duniec) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 12:16:52 -0000 Subject: [LU] non LU - FSF petition In-Reply-To: <489721.84645.qm@web86110.mail.ird.yahoo.com> References: <489721.84645.qm@web86110.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5800F0449D1847639630136FA7E20D46@RicksDesktop> http://www.fsf.org.uk/sunderlandfans/ The now infamous incident that took place at Newcastle?s Central Station on Saturday 8th August between a group of around 40 Sunderland fans and Northumbria Police has gathered a lot of media attention, especially in the north-east. Some supporters are now familiar with the case down to the smallest details ? many however, are not. This is our attempt to create one place where supporters can find all the advice, information and facts they need. If you know anyone who was there send them this link ? we want to hear from them! FOLLOWERS OF EVERY CLUB SHOULD CLICK HERE AND SIGN THE PETITION AGAINST SUNDERLAND'S FAN BANS! IT COULD BE YOUR TURN NEXT. What happened? On Saturday August 8th a group of approximately 40 Sunderland fans arrived at Newcastle?s Central Station following their team?s pre-season friendly with Heart of Midlothian. Four fans were hospitalised with serious injuries caused by police dogs and batons. We believe Northumbria Police over-reacted. Supporters have been injured when not posing a threat to themselves, others or the police. The police have labelled many fans as thugs and hooligans intent on meeting for pre-arranged violence in Newcastle. This is despite the fact that a Tannoy announcement at Hearts told them the train was going direct to Sunderland! The police's PR campaign distorted the facts via selectively edited CCTV footage released to the local media. Fans present have repeatedly requested that ALL footage be released. The police have refused to do so. The eye-witness accounts we have received directly contradict the police?s story - it is not often we get so many fans all independently telling the same story - the police accusations just don?t add up. From rickd at ntlworld.com Fri Nov 6 12:17:51 2009 From: rickd at ntlworld.com (Rick Duniec) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 12:17:51 -0000 Subject: [LU] non LU - FSF petition In-Reply-To: <489721.84645.qm@web86110.mail.ird.yahoo.com> References: <489721.84645.qm@web86110.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <18435C65E8CD44A3B6038006F7FF4FC3@RicksDesktop> http://www.fsf.org.uk/petitions/sunderland-ban-quinn-petition.php From nigel at mindbrix.co.uk Fri Nov 6 12:35:00 2009 From: nigel at mindbrix.co.uk (Nigel Barber) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 12:35:00 +0000 Subject: [LU] non LU - FSF petition In-Reply-To: <5800F0449D1847639630136FA7E20D46@RicksDesktop> References: <489721.84645.qm@web86110.mail.ird.yahoo.com> <5800F0449D1847639630136FA7E20D46@RicksDesktop> Message-ID: <5cb2c0530911060435l405f4f04j7bb66555d0570555@mail.gmail.com> Shades of what happened to that poor sod at the climate change rally. A few police bully boys leather someone, and the rest close ranks to cover it up. Scum. Mix in the safety-first political zeitgeist, and this is what you get. The treatment of football supporters is an ongoing scandal. Nigel. 2009/11/6 Rick Duniec > http://www.fsf.org.uk/sunderlandfans/ > > The now infamous incident that took place at Newcastle?s Central Station on > Saturday 8th August between a group of around 40 Sunderland fans and > Northumbria Police has gathered a lot of media attention, especially in the > north-east. Some supporters are now familiar with the case down to the > smallest details ? many however, are not. > This is our attempt to create one place where supporters can find all the > advice, information and facts they need. If you know anyone who was there > send them this link ? we want to hear from them! > FOLLOWERS OF EVERY CLUB SHOULD CLICK HERE AND SIGN THE PETITION AGAINST > SUNDERLAND'S FAN BANS! IT COULD BE YOUR TURN NEXT. > What happened? On Saturday August 8th a group of approximately 40 > Sunderland fans arrived at Newcastle?s Central Station following their > team?s pre-season friendly with Heart of Midlothian. Four fans were > hospitalised with serious injuries caused by police dogs and batons. > We believe Northumbria Police over-reacted. Supporters have been injured > when not posing a threat to themselves, others or the police. > The police have labelled many fans as thugs and hooligans intent on meeting > for pre-arranged violence in Newcastle. > This is despite the fact that a Tannoy announcement at Hearts told them the > train was going direct to Sunderland! > The police's PR campaign distorted the facts via selectively edited CCTV > footage released to the local media. Fans present have repeatedly requested > that ALL footage be released. The police have refused to do so. > The eye-witness accounts we have received directly contradict the police?s > story - it is not often we get so many fans all independently telling the > same story - the police accusations just don?t add up. > _______________________________________________ > the Leeds List is an unmoderated mailing list and the list administrators > accept no liability for the personal views and opinions of contributors. > Leedslist mailing list > Leedslist at list.zetnet.co.uk > http://list.zetnet.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist > http://www.worldnet.org.uk WorldNET2009 > -- Mindbrix: Web design, building, e-commerce, promotion, consultancy... Happiness at Work Studios 1 Green Bank Wapping E1W 2PA nigel at mindbrix.co.uk www.mindbrix.co.uk T:+44 20 7480 5638 M:+44 7905 311 352 Skype: ntbarber From briggsy_lad at hotmail.com Fri Nov 6 14:48:48 2009 From: briggsy_lad at hotmail.com (Chris Briggs) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 14:48:48 -0000 Subject: [LU] non LU - FSF petition In-Reply-To: <5800F0449D1847639630136FA7E20D46@RicksDesktop> References: <489721.84645.qm@web86110.mail.ird.yahoo.com> <5800F0449D1847639630136FA7E20D46@RicksDesktop> Message-ID: I haven't read up on this, but the key question to all of this is did the Fans get charged with any offence? If they did then the club has no choice but to ban them (for a minimum of 3 years), if they didn't then the club is over-reacting. -------------------------------------------------- From: "Rick Duniec" Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 12:16 PM To: Subject: Re: [LU] non LU - FSF petition > http://www.fsf.org.uk/sunderlandfans/ > > The now infamous incident that took place at Newcastle?s Central Station > on Saturday 8th August between a group of around 40 Sunderland fans and > Northumbria Police has gathered a lot of media attention, especially in > the north-east. Some supporters are now familiar with the case down to the > smallest details ? many however, are not. > This is our attempt to create one place where supporters can find all the > advice, information and facts they need. If you know anyone who was there > send them this link ? we want to hear from them! > FOLLOWERS OF EVERY CLUB SHOULD CLICK HERE AND SIGN THE PETITION AGAINST > SUNDERLAND'S FAN BANS! IT COULD BE YOUR TURN NEXT. > What happened? On Saturday August 8th a group of approximately 40 > Sunderland fans arrived at Newcastle?s Central Station following their > team?s pre-season friendly with Heart of Midlothian. Four fans were > hospitalised with serious injuries caused by police dogs and batons. > We believe Northumbria Police over-reacted. Supporters have been injured > when not posing a threat to themselves, others or the police. > The police have labelled many fans as thugs and hooligans intent on > meeting for pre-arranged violence in Newcastle. > This is despite the fact that a Tannoy announcement at Hearts told them > the train was going direct to Sunderland! > The police's PR campaign distorted the facts via selectively edited CCTV > footage released to the local media. Fans present have repeatedly > requested that ALL footage be released. The police have refused to do so. > The eye-witness accounts we have received directly contradict the police?s > story - it is not often we get so many fans all independently telling the > same story - the police accusations just don?t add up. > _______________________________________________ > the Leeds List is an unmoderated mailing list and the list administrators > accept no liability for the personal views and opinions of contributors. > Leedslist mailing list > Leedslist at list.zetnet.co.uk > http://list.zetnet.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist > http://www.worldnet.org.uk WorldNET2009 From sinisterpictures at dogz-bollox.co.uk Fri Nov 6 15:14:05 2009 From: sinisterpictures at dogz-bollox.co.uk (sinister dexter) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 15:14:05 +0000 Subject: [LU] non LU - FSF petition In-Reply-To: <5cb2c0530911060435l405f4f04j7bb66555d0570555@mail.gmail.com> References: <489721.84645.qm@web86110.mail.ird.yahoo.com> <5800F0449D1847639630136FA7E20D46@RicksDesktop> <5cb2c0530911060435l405f4f04j7bb66555d0570555@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <976C8A52-1596-46C9-8E4D-1F3311672C1A@dogz-bollox.co.uk> Well protesters are now labelled as 'domestic extremists' by the rozzers, gives you an inkling of the direction things are heading. The treatment and rights of individuals traveling to watch a game of football have always been completely disregarded for as long as I can remember. How many people have you seen ejected from grounds for absolutely no reason? Put on trains going to places they don't want to go? Made to go to a rail;way station when their car is parked around the corner? From brendan.mcwilliams at vodafone.com Fri Nov 6 15:29:29 2009 From: brendan.mcwilliams at vodafone.com (McWilliams, Brendan, VF-Group (bmcwill)) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 16:29:29 +0100 Subject: [LU] non LU - FSF petition In-Reply-To: <976C8A52-1596-46C9-8E4D-1F3311672C1A@dogz-bollox.co.uk> References: <489721.84645.qm@web86110.mail.ird.yahoo.com><5800F0449D1847639630136FA7E20D46@RicksDesktop><5cb2c0530911060435l405f4f04j7bb66555d0570555@mail.gmail.com> <976C8A52-1596-46C9-8E4D-1F3311672C1A@dogz-bollox.co.uk> Message-ID: It seems to me that it is mostly the UK that is turning into literally a police state with so much CCTV and opposition to demonstrations (not that demonstrations actually every achieve anything usually, Poll Tax apart) - is it as bad anywhere else? Here in Espa?a I reckon there's some sort of public demo in downtown Madrid EVERY weekend. The hookers even had one a few years (I kid you not). As for the FA Cup game tomorrow - I couldn't care less, only thinking about the next league game and getting out of this FEKKN cesspit of sh1te that is League 1. > -----Mensaje original----- > De: leedslist-bounces at list.zetnet.co.uk [mailto:leedslist-bounces at list.zetnet.co.uk] En nombre de sinister dexter > Enviado el: viernes, 06 de noviembre de 2009 16:14 > Para: LEEDS LIST > Asunto: Re: [LU] non LU - FSF petition > > Well protesters are now labelled as 'domestic extremists' by the > rozzers, gives you an inkling of the direction things are heading. > The treatment and rights of individuals traveling to watch a game of > football have always been completely disregarded for as long as I can > remember. How many people have you seen ejected from grounds for > absolutely no reason? Put on trains going to places they don't want to > go? Made to go to a rail;way station when their car is parked around > the corner? > > _______________________________________________ > the Leeds List is an unmoderated mailing list and the list administrators accept no liability for the personal views and > opinions of contributors. > Leedslist mailing list > Leedslist at list.zetnet.co.uk > http://list.zetnet.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist > http://www.worldnet.org.uk WorldNET2009 Confidencialidad Este correo electr?nico y, en su caso, cualquier fichero anexo al mismo, contiene informaci?n de car?cter confidencial exclusivamente dirigida a su destinatario o destinatarios y propiedad de Vodafone Espa?a. Queda prohibida su divulgaci?n, copia o distribuci?n a terceros sin la previa autorizaci?n escrita de Vodafone Espa?a, en virtud de la legislaci?n vigente. En el caso de haber recibido este correo electr?nico por error, se ruega notificar inmediatamente esta circunstancia mediante reenv?o a la direcci?n electr?nica del remitente y la destrucci?n del mismo. Confidentiality The information in this e-mail and in any attachments is classified as Vodafone Espa?a Confidential and Proprietary Information and solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s). You are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copy of this communication is prohibited without the prior written consent of Vodafone Espa?a and is s strictly prohibited by law. If you have received this communication in error, please, notify the sender by reply e-mail. From john at boocock.net Fri Nov 6 15:50:27 2009 From: john at boocock.net (John Boocock) Date: Fri, 06 Nov 2009 15:50:27 +0000 Subject: [LU] [Fwd: Fan Mail - The FSF Newsletter (Campaign special!)] Message-ID: <4AF445C3.8030207@boocock.net> Welcome to the FSF Fan Mail - The FSF Newsletter (Campaign special!) Sign our petition and oppose fan bans A group of Sunderland supporters have launched a petition against their club?s decision to ban them from the Stadium of Light. Some of the group have been arrested, but not charged, for their involvement in an incident between fans and police in August. These supporters have continually maintained that they are innocent of any crime and were shocked and outraged to receive notice that they have been banned from attending Sunderland games last week, nearly three months after the event. Unfortunately, the FSF has noticed more and more clubs banning supporters first and asking questions later and we urge all football fans to stand together against this decision. Why are fans treated differently to the rest of society? Why are we guilty until proven innocent? Please follow this link to sign the petition and pledge your support. Thank you. Want to find out more about the full incident? Click here. From chrischambers1 at hotmail.co.uk Fri Nov 6 16:35:24 2009 From: chrischambers1 at hotmail.co.uk (Chris Chambers) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 16:35:24 +0000 Subject: [LU] Two Premier Leagues. Message-ID: Apparently there is a meeting of the Premier League next week and the second "Premier League" is on the agenda. Talk is that Celtic and Rangers would be invited to join. Any thoughts on this anyone? _________________________________________________________________ Download Messenger onto your mobile for free http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/174426567/direct/01/ From rheath at mis-munich.de Fri Nov 6 16:40:39 2009 From: rheath at mis-munich.de (Robert Heath) Date: Fri, 06 Nov 2009 17:40:39 +0100 Subject: [LU] Two Premier Leagues. In-Reply-To: SNT109-W53C9BF51E8B265E3A77387C1AF0@phx.gbl Message-ID: <20091106164039.20121e42@wa.mis-munich.de> Not sure if it is a good idea for football in general or not (first thopught......it will be good if it distributes the moolah a bit more evenly), but I think it might be a very good thing for Leeds United. They will be inviting Celtic & Rangers and my guess is that big clubs with big stadia and more importanrtly big crowds will also be invited in if they aren't already there legitimately. _____ From: Chris Chambers [mailto:chrischambers1 at hotmail.co.uk] To: leedslist at list.zetnet.co.uk Sent: Fri, 06 Nov 2009 17:35:24 +0100 Subject: [LU] Two Premier Leagues. Apparently there is a meeting of the Premier League next week and the second "Premier League" is on the agenda. Talk is that Celtic and Rangers would be invited to join. Any thoughts on this anyone? _________________________________________________________________ Download Messenger onto your mobile for free http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/174426567/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ the Leeds List is an unmoderated mailing list and the list administrators accept no liability for the personal views and opinions of contributors. Leedslist mailing list Leedslist at list.zetnet.co.uk http://list.zetnet.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist http://www.worldnet.org.uk WorldNET2009 From sinisterpictures at dogz-bollox.co.uk Fri Nov 6 16:44:57 2009 From: sinisterpictures at dogz-bollox.co.uk (sinister dexter) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 16:44:57 +0000 Subject: [LU] Two Premier Leagues. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: More to do with ???? than football From jim at jimmoran.co.uk Fri Nov 6 16:46:54 2009 From: jim at jimmoran.co.uk (Jim Moran) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 16:46:54 +0000 Subject: [LU] Two Premier Leagues. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Why would they join when they're guaranteed silverware and European football pretty much every year where they are? As for Leeds, I couldn't care less what the league is called, until we're back in in the top flight it's always going to be 2nd (or 3rd) best. 2009/11/6 Chris Chambers > > Apparently there is a meeting of the Premier League next week and the > second "Premier League" is on the agenda. Talk is that Celtic and Rangers > would be invited to join. Any thoughts on this anyone? > _________________________________________________________________ > Download Messenger onto your mobile for free > http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/174426567/direct/01/ > _______________________________________________ > the Leeds List is an unmoderated mailing list and the list administrators > accept no liability for the personal views and opinions of contributors. > Leedslist mailing list > Leedslist at list.zetnet.co.uk > http://list.zetnet.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist > http://www.worldnet.org.uk WorldNET2009 > From briggsy_lad at hotmail.com Fri Nov 6 16:47:58 2009 From: briggsy_lad at hotmail.com (Chris Briggs) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 16:47:58 -0000 Subject: [LU] Two Premier Leagues. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: yep, it sounds like a f*cking ridiculous idea. It is bad enough that we let the bloody scottish invade our parliament when the bastards have got their own we can't let them play in our football league too. I can't imagine either; a) Celtic or Rangers fans being up for a tuesday night game in January at Portsmouth. b) The teams wanting to give up their (easy) chances of qualifying for Chumps League every year. Would they have to become members of the FA instead of the SFA. -------------------------------------------------- From: "Chris Chambers" Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 4:35 PM To: Subject: [LU] Two Premier Leagues. > > Apparently there is a meeting of the Premier League next week and the > second "Premier League" is on the agenda. Talk is that Celtic and Rangers > would be invited to join. Any thoughts on this anyone? From nigel at mindbrix.co.uk Fri Nov 6 16:53:06 2009 From: nigel at mindbrix.co.uk (Nigel Barber) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 16:53:06 +0000 Subject: [LU] non LU - FSF petition In-Reply-To: References: <489721.84645.qm@web86110.mail.ird.yahoo.com> <5800F0449D1847639630136FA7E20D46@RicksDesktop> Message-ID: <5cb2c0530911060853n21144211y14ec466cab7c2b73@mail.gmail.com> Whatever happened to presumption of innocence? Nigel. 2009/11/6 Chris Briggs > I haven't read up on this, but the key question to all of this is did the > Fans get charged with any offence? > If they did then the club has no choice but to ban them (for a minimum of 3 > years), if they didn't then the club is over-reacting. > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Rick Duniec" > Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 12:16 PM > To: > Subject: Re: [LU] non LU - FSF petition > > > http://www.fsf.org.uk/sunderlandfans/ >> >> The now infamous incident that took place at Newcastle?s Central Station >> on Saturday 8th August between a group of around 40 Sunderland fans and >> Northumbria Police has gathered a lot of media attention, especially in the >> north-east. Some supporters are now familiar with the case down to the >> smallest details ? many however, are not. >> This is our attempt to create one place where supporters can find all the >> advice, information and facts they need. If you know anyone who was there >> send them this link ? we want to hear from them! >> FOLLOWERS OF EVERY CLUB SHOULD CLICK HERE AND SIGN THE PETITION AGAINST >> SUNDERLAND'S FAN BANS! IT COULD BE YOUR TURN NEXT. >> What happened? On Saturday August 8th a group of approximately 40 >> Sunderland fans arrived at Newcastle?s Central Station following their >> team?s pre-season friendly with Heart of Midlothian. Four fans were >> hospitalised with serious injuries caused by police dogs and batons. >> We believe Northumbria Police over-reacted. Supporters have been injured >> when not posing a threat to themselves, others or the police. >> The police have labelled many fans as thugs and hooligans intent on >> meeting for pre-arranged violence in Newcastle. >> This is despite the fact that a Tannoy announcement at Hearts told them >> the train was going direct to Sunderland! >> The police's PR campaign distorted the facts via selectively edited CCTV >> footage released to the local media. Fans present have repeatedly requested >> that ALL footage be released. The police have refused to do so. >> The eye-witness accounts we have received directly contradict the police?s >> story - it is not often we get so many fans all independently telling the >> same story - the police accusations just don?t add up. >> _______________________________________________ >> the Leeds List is an unmoderated mailing list and the list administrators >> accept no liability for the personal views and opinions of contributors. >> Leedslist mailing list >> Leedslist at list.zetnet.co.uk >> http://list.zetnet.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist >> http://www.worldnet.org.uk WorldNET2009 >> > > > _______________________________________________ > the Leeds List is an unmoderated mailing list and the list administrators > accept no liability for the personal views and opinions of contributors. > Leedslist mailing list > Leedslist at list.zetnet.co.uk > http://list.zetnet.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist > http://www.worldnet.org.uk WorldNET2009 > -- Mindbrix: Web design, building, e-commerce, promotion, consultancy... Happiness at Work Studios 1 Green Bank Wapping E1W 2PA nigel at mindbrix.co.uk www.mindbrix.co.uk T:+44 20 7480 5638 M:+44 7905 311 352 Skype: ntbarber From john at boocock.net Fri Nov 6 16:53:59 2009 From: john at boocock.net (John Boocock) Date: Fri, 06 Nov 2009 16:53:59 +0000 Subject: [LU] Supporters Direct elect new Chair Message-ID: <4AF454A7.8040701@boocock.net> A further communication is anticipated from the new Trust Board very shortly, but in the meantime this is being sent as a catch-up for newer members. Previous Message from your new board - The most important thing now, is to look forward. We have put in the hard work to get to this position, which many thought an impossible dream. Our aim is to be a truly independent organisation run by the fans, for the benefit of the fans and the club. We will achieve this through a very simple plan: you the fans will give us the mandate and the agenda. Our doors are always open, we will consult, canvass and listen to your opinions and take these views to both your fellow fans and the club and feedback the outcomes to you. We are now in a position to move L.U.S.T forward and we are all genuinely excited to be part of what we feel could be a special thing for Leeds United fans all over the world. Have your voice heard and make your feelings known. There is a lot of work ahead but we have high aims for L.U.S.T and hope to be in a position to announce new initiatives and ideas to everyone in the very near future. This is a significant moment for L.U.S.T, but this is only the beginning. Now is the time when we all must stand together and be counted. We sing and talk about Marching On Together, this is now an opportunity to really back up those words by coming together, uniting our voice and standing up as and for Leeds United fans all over the globe. Marching On Together, The New L.U.S.T Board Former Co-operatives UK Chief Executive Pauline Green has been elected as Chair of Supporters Direct. The appointment took place at Supporters Direct's annual conference in Birmingham this month, which saw more than 150 delegates representing over 50 trusts from around the country. Ms Green said she had been an admirer of the work of Supporters' Direct since it was set up in 1999: "I've watched the success of Supporters Direct over the last 10 years with admiration. The growth has been phenomenal. It is hugely exciting for me to be part of a leading edge organisation that brings in tens of thousands of people to the co-operative model." Dave Boyle, Chief Executive of Supporters Direct, said: "I'm absolutely delighted Dame Pauline is joining our team and it's a huge vote of confidence for the organisation that someone of Dame Pauline's abilities is joining us." "Supporters Direct owes its existence to two sources: the inspiration of Brian Lomax and the support of the co-operative movement. With her fantastic co-operative and political experience, she will help us extend Brian's legacy. She replaces Supporters Direct founder Brian Lomax OBE, who held the position of Chair from 2005, having spent 3 years as its first Managing Director, before stepping down at this year's Conference. Dame Pauline commented "Brian received a standing ovation from the Conference which was incredibly heartfelt and showed just how much people appreciate and value his work for the trust movement. I have a hard act to follow, but I know he'll be on hand to help, as will my colleagues on the SD Board." The Board of the Supporters Trust as at 25th October 2009 Gary Cooper (Chairman) Simon Ridley (Trust Secretary) Lee Hicken John Moran Ross Davidson /(All of the above are co-opted board members and subject to election at the SGM)/ Malcolm Christie Treasurer elected for 3 years from 15th April 2009. Gary Hewitt re-elected for 3 years from 15th April 2009 Steve Cooke Membership Secretary to the Trust. (not a board member) Members are reminded that free individual membership of the Football Supporters Federation is available to everyone. You can sign up at - http://www.fsf.org.uk/join.php All Trust members are requested to please bring their membership subscriptions up to date as soon as possible. To pay via paypal please go to the Trusts website and use the standard membership paypal buttons. Some payments which have been made by cheque or by bank transfer may not yet have reached the membership records and if this applies to you then please let us know by return email. Thank you. (Lifetime members or members making one pound per month rolling subscriptions should please ignore the following payment details) Members in arrears are requested to renew now, if possible by using on-line banking or standard bank transfer. Payments may be made to The L U Supporters Trust account using bank details Sort code 08-92-99 Account number 65100301 Please quote your Trust share number as a reference. Any donations will also be gratefully received with thanks and may be added to your subscription payment amount. Standard Subs are ?5 single adult per year ?7.50 Joint Adult per year ?100 Life membership A chat forum is available for members to discuss all Trust related matters. You can find it at www.leedstrustforum.com leave-287212-6091-72 at intouchwithmembers.co.uk *The Leeds United Supporters' Trust* The Co-operative Travel, 57 Street Lane, Roundhay, Leeds LS8 1AP General Enquiries: admin at lufctrust.org Membership Enquiries: membership at lufctrust.org Website: www.lufctrust.org From Andy.Kneale at jpmchase.com Fri Nov 6 16:54:24 2009 From: Andy.Kneale at jpmchase.com (Andy Kneale) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 16:54:24 +0000 Subject: [LU] Two Premier Leagues. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yeah, one question: which league would they go down to when they're relegated after the first season? Gaffer -----Original Message----- From: leedslist-bounces at list.zetnet.co.uk [mailto:leedslist-bounces at list.zetnet.co.uk] On Behalf Of Chris Chambers Sent: 06 November 2009 16:35 To: leedslist at list.zetnet.co.uk Subject: [LU] Two Premier Leagues. Apparently there is a meeting of the Premier League next week and the second "Premier League" is on the agenda. Talk is that Celtic and Rangers would be invited to join. Any thoughts on this anyone? This communication is for informational purposes only. It is not intended as an offer or solicitation for the purchase or sale of any financial instrument or as an official confirmation of any transaction. All market prices, data and other information are not warranted as to completeness or accuracy and are subject to change without notice. Any comments or statements made herein do not necessarily reflect those of JPMorgan Chase & Co., its subsidiaries and affiliates. This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential, legally privileged, and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. Although this transmission and any attachments are believed to be free of any virus or other defect that might affect any computer system into which it is received and opened, it is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that it is virus free and no responsibility is accepted by JPMorgan Chase & Co., its subsidiaries and affiliates, as applicable, for any loss or damage arising in any way from its use. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. Please refer to http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures for disclosures relating to European legal entities. From jim at jimmoran.co.uk Fri Nov 6 16:58:19 2009 From: jim at jimmoran.co.uk (Jim Moran) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 16:58:19 +0000 Subject: [LU] Two Premier Leagues. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Probably have Rugby League style no relegation. 2009/11/6 Andy Kneale > Yeah, one question: which league would they go down to when they're > relegated after the first season? > From matt at leeds-united.net Fri Nov 6 16:58:32 2009 From: matt at leeds-united.net (matt at leeds-united.net) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 16:58:32 +0000 Subject: [LU] Two Premier Leagues. Message-ID: <1190826909-1257526711-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-859176365-@bda234.bisx.produk.on.blackberry> Everything about scotland wants to break away from england. Why should they be involved with our football. This is a big nono for me. If that's the case why not invite Ajax and PSV to join. They are nearer to many EPL teams ------Original Message------ From: Chris Chambers Sender: leedslist-bounces at list.zetnet.co.uk To: Leeds List Subject: [LU] Two Premier Leagues. Sent: 7 Nov 2009 00:35 Apparently there is a meeting of the Premier League next week and the second "Premier League" is on the agenda. Talk is that Celtic and Rangers would be invited to join. Any thoughts on this anyone? _________________________________________________________________ Download Messenger onto your mobile for free http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/174426567/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ the Leeds List is an unmoderated mailing list and the list administrators accept no liability for the personal views and opinions of contributors. Leedslist mailing list Leedslist at list.zetnet.co.uk http://list.zetnet.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist http://www.worldnet.org.uk WorldNET2009 Sent from my BlackBerry? wireless device From matt at leeds-united.net Fri Nov 6 16:59:17 2009 From: matt at leeds-united.net (matt at leeds-united.net) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 16:59:17 +0000 Subject: [LU] Two Premier Leagues. Message-ID: <1956580841-1257526757-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1766776119-@bda234.bisx.produk.on.blackberry> I don't want promotion without earning it. ------Original Message------ From: Robert Heath Sender: leedslist-bounces at list.zetnet.co.uk To: Chris Chambers To: Leeds List Subject: Re: [LU] Two Premier Leagues. Sent: 7 Nov 2009 00:40 Not sure if it is a good idea for football in general or not (first thopught......it will be good if it distributes the moolah a bit more evenly), but I think it might be a very good thing for Leeds United. They will be inviting Celtic & Rangers and my guess is that big clubs with big stadia and more importanrtly big crowds will also be invited in if they aren't already there legitimately. _____ From: Chris Chambers [mailto:chrischambers1 at hotmail.co.uk] To: leedslist at list.zetnet.co.uk Sent: Fri, 06 Nov 2009 17:35:24 +0100 Subject: [LU] Two Premier Leagues. Apparently there is a meeting of the Premier League next week and the second "Premier League" is on the agenda. Talk is that Celtic and Rangers would be invited to join. Any thoughts on this anyone? _________________________________________________________________ Download Messenger onto your mobile for free http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/174426567/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ the Leeds List is an unmoderated mailing list and the list administrators accept no liability for the personal views and opinions of contributors. Leedslist mailing list Leedslist at list.zetnet.co.uk http://list.zetnet.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist http://www.worldnet.org.uk WorldNET2009 _______________________________________________ the Leeds List is an unmoderated mailing list and the list administrators accept no liability for the personal views and opinions of contributors. Leedslist mailing list Leedslist at list.zetnet.co.uk http://list.zetnet.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist http://www.worldnet.org.uk WorldNET2009 Sent from my BlackBerry? wireless device From matt at leeds-united.net Fri Nov 6 17:01:16 2009 From: matt at leeds-united.net (matt at leeds-united.net) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 17:01:16 +0000 Subject: [LU] Two Premier Leagues. Message-ID: <510248674-1257526876-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1455458469-@bda234.bisx.produk.on.blackberry> B). ?2m in spl tv revenue and scraps from CL or ?35m from prem. They think sod the silverwear and europe when they can earn 5 or 6 times more ------Original Message------ From: Chris Briggs Sender: leedslist-bounces at list.zetnet.co.uk To: Chris Chambers To: Leeds List Subject: Re: [LU] Two Premier Leagues. Sent: 7 Nov 2009 00:47 yep, it sounds like a f*cking ridiculous idea. It is bad enough that we let the bloody scottish invade our parliament when the bastards have got their own we can't let them play in our football league too. I can't imagine either; a) Celtic or Rangers fans being up for a tuesday night game in January at Portsmouth. b) The teams wanting to give up their (easy) chances of qualifying for Chumps League every year. Would they have to become members of the FA instead of the SFA. -------------------------------------------------- From: "Chris Chambers" Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 4:35 PM To: Subject: [LU] Two Premier Leagues. > > Apparently there is a meeting of the Premier League next week and the > second "Premier League" is on the agenda. Talk is that Celtic and Rangers > would be invited to join. Any thoughts on this anyone? _______________________________________________ the Leeds List is an unmoderated mailing list and the list administrators accept no liability for the personal views and opinions of contributors. Leedslist mailing list Leedslist at list.zetnet.co.uk http://list.zetnet.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist http://www.worldnet.org.uk WorldNET2009 Sent from my BlackBerry? wireless device From sinisterpictures at dogz-bollox.co.uk Fri Nov 6 17:05:33 2009 From: sinisterpictures at dogz-bollox.co.uk (sinister dexter) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 17:05:33 +0000 Subject: [LU] non LU - FSF petition In-Reply-To: <5cb2c0530911060853n21144211y14ec466cab7c2b73@mail.gmail.com> References: <489721.84645.qm@web86110.mail.ird.yahoo.com> <5800F0449D1847639630136FA7E20D46@RicksDesktop> <5cb2c0530911060853n21144211y14ec466cab7c2b73@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6BE502CB-DC99-4411-A3A9-A43BDF5C9AA4@dogz-bollox.co.uk> I think it disappeared sometime during the 1980s On 6 Nov 2009, at 16:53, Nigel Barber wrote: > Whatever happened to presumption of innocence? > > > Nigel. > > From MarkBursa at aol.com Fri Nov 6 17:07:41 2009 From: MarkBursa at aol.com (MarkBursa at aol.com) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 12:07:41 EST Subject: [LU] Two Premier Leagues. Message-ID: You'd have to have relegation - but what happens when Celtic & Rangers finish at the bottom of Prem 2, which would be quite likely given their current status? Relegated to where? Replaced by which club? League 1 champion? SPL champion? Also, as I understand it, Cardiff cannot qualify for Europe through winning an English trophy. Surely the same would apply to the Scottish clubs. A very large industrial catering can of worms... M From briggsy_lad at hotmail.com Fri Nov 6 17:08:28 2009 From: briggsy_lad at hotmail.com (Chris Briggs) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 17:08:28 -0000 Subject: [LU] non LU - FSF petition In-Reply-To: <5cb2c0530911060853n21144211y14ec466cab7c2b73@mail.gmail.com> References: <489721.84645.qm@web86110.mail.ird.yahoo.com> <5800F0449D1847639630136FA7E20D46@RicksDesktop> <5cb2c0530911060853n21144211y14ec466cab7c2b73@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I wasn't bring the presumption of innocence into question. What I was getting it was the article extract in the email did not contain any information pertaining to criminal charges. If criminal charges had been brought in the CPS have no choice in adding a football banning order into the equation, this is why I mentioned that the clubs would have no choice in re-iterating a ban by bringing in one of their own. If no criminal charges have been brought in then the club does seems a little quick in banning folk that are still in the eyes of the law presumed innocent (as I also said in the email) From: Nigel Barber Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 4:53 PM To: Chris Briggs Cc: Rick Duniec ; Leedslist at list.zetnet.co.uk Subject: Re: [LU] non LU - FSF petition Whatever happened to presumption of innocence? Nigel. 2009/11/6 Chris Briggs I haven't read up on this, but the key question to all of this is did the Fans get charged with any offence? If they did then the club has no choice but to ban them (for a minimum of 3 years), if they didn't then the club is over-reacting. -------------------------------------------------- From: "Rick Duniec" Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 12:16 PM To: Subject: Re: [LU] non LU - FSF petition http://www.fsf.org.uk/sunderlandfans/ The now infamous incident that took place at Newcastle?s Central Station on Saturday 8th August between a group of around 40 Sunderland fans and Northumbria Police has gathered a lot of media attention, especially in the north-east. Some supporters are now familiar with the case down to the smallest details ? many however, are not. This is our attempt to create one place where supporters can find all the advice, information and facts they need. If you know anyone who was there send them this link ? we want to hear from them! FOLLOWERS OF EVERY CLUB SHOULD CLICK HERE AND SIGN THE PETITION AGAINST SUNDERLAND'S FAN BANS! IT COULD BE YOUR TURN NEXT. What happened? On Saturday August 8th a group of approximately 40 Sunderland fans arrived at Newcastle?s Central Station following their team?s pre-season friendly with Heart of Midlothian. Four fans were hospitalised with serious injuries caused by police dogs and batons. We believe Northumbria Police over-reacted. Supporters have been injured when not posing a threat to themselves, others or the police. The police have labelled many fans as thugs and hooligans intent on meeting for pre-arranged violence in Newcastle. This is despite the fact that a Tannoy announcement at Hearts told them the train was going direct to Sunderland! The police's PR campaign distorted the facts via selectively edited CCTV footage released to the local media. Fans present have repeatedly requested that ALL footage be released. The police have refused to do so. The eye-witness accounts we have received directly contradict the police?s story - it is not often we get so many fans all independently telling the same story - the police accusations just don?t add up. _______________________________________________ the Leeds List is an unmoderated mailing list and the list administrators accept no liability for the personal views and opinions of contributors. Leedslist mailing list Leedslist at list.zetnet.co.uk http://list.zetnet.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist http://www.worldnet.org.uk WorldNET2009 _______________________________________________ the Leeds List is an unmoderated mailing list and the list administrators accept no liability for the personal views and opinions of contributors. Leedslist mailing list Leedslist at list.zetnet.co.uk http://list.zetnet.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist http://www.worldnet.org.uk WorldNET2009 -- Mindbrix: Web design, building, e-commerce, promotion, consultancy... Happiness at Work Studios 1 Green Bank Wapping E1W 2PA nigel at mindbrix.co.uk www.mindbrix.co.uk T:+44 20 7480 5638 M:+44 7905 311 352 Skype: ntbarber From nigel at mindbrix.co.uk Fri Nov 6 17:37:29 2009 From: nigel at mindbrix.co.uk (Nigel Barber) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 17:37:29 +0000 Subject: [LU] non LU - FSF petition In-Reply-To: References: <489721.84645.qm@web86110.mail.ird.yahoo.com> <5800F0449D1847639630136FA7E20D46@RicksDesktop> <5cb2c0530911060853n21144211y14ec466cab7c2b73@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5cb2c0530911060937q46c2175cp27bd38890cc3932f@mail.gmail.com> Looks like there's no presumption of innocence with respect to banning orders. Nigel. 2009/11/6 Chris Briggs > I wasn't bring the presumption of innocence into question. > > What I was getting it was the article extract in the email did not contain > any information pertaining to criminal charges. > If criminal charges had been brought in the CPS have no choice in adding a > football banning order into the equation, this is why I mentioned that the > clubs would have no choice in re-iterating a ban by bringing in one of their > own. > > If no criminal charges have been brought in then the club does seems a > little quick in banning folk that are still in the eyes of the law presumed > innocent (as I also said in the email) > > *From:* Nigel Barber > *Sent:* Friday, November 06, 2009 4:53 PM > *To:* Chris Briggs > *Cc:* Rick Duniec ; Leedslist at list.zetnet.co.uk > *Subject:* Re: [LU] non LU - FSF petition > > Whatever happened to presumption of innocence? > > > Nigel. > > > 2009/11/6 Chris Briggs > >> I haven't read up on this, but the key question to all of this is did the >> Fans get charged with any offence? >> If they did then the club has no choice but to ban them (for a minimum of >> 3 years), if they didn't then the club is over-reacting. >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "Rick Duniec" >> Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 12:16 PM >> To: >> Subject: Re: [LU] non LU - FSF petition >> >> >> http://www.fsf.org.uk/sunderlandfans/ >>> >>> The now infamous incident that took place at Newcastle?s Central Station >>> on Saturday 8th August between a group of around 40 Sunderland fans and >>> Northumbria Police has gathered a lot of media attention, especially in the >>> north-east. Some supporters are now familiar with the case down to the >>> smallest details ? many however, are not. >>> This is our attempt to create one place where supporters can find all the >>> advice, information and facts they need. If you know anyone who was there >>> send them this link ? we want to hear from them! >>> FOLLOWERS OF EVERY CLUB SHOULD CLICK HERE AND SIGN THE PETITION AGAINST >>> SUNDERLAND'S FAN BANS! IT COULD BE YOUR TURN NEXT. >>> What happened? On Saturday August 8th a group of approximately 40 >>> Sunderland fans arrived at Newcastle?s Central Station following their >>> team?s pre-season friendly with Heart of Midlothian. Four fans were >>> hospitalised with serious injuries caused by police dogs and batons. >>> We believe Northumbria Police over-reacted. Supporters have been injured >>> when not posing a threat to themselves, others or the police. >>> The police have labelled many fans as thugs and hooligans intent on >>> meeting for pre-arranged violence in Newcastle. >>> This is despite the fact that a Tannoy announcement at Hearts told them >>> the train was going direct to Sunderland! >>> The police's PR campaign distorted the facts via selectively edited CCTV >>> footage released to the local media. Fans present have repeatedly requested >>> that ALL footage be released. The police have refused to do so. >>> The eye-witness accounts we have received directly contradict the >>> police?s story - it is not often we get so many fans all independently >>> telling the same story - the police accusations just don?t add up. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> the Leeds List is an unmoderated mailing list and the list administrators >>> accept no liability for the personal views and opinions of contributors. >>> Leedslist mailing list >>> Leedslist at list.zetnet.co.uk >>> http://list.zetnet.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist >>> http://www.worldnet.org.uk WorldNET2009 >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> the Leeds List is an unmoderated mailing list and the list administrators >> accept no liability for the personal views and opinions of contributors. >> Leedslist mailing list >> Leedslist at list.zetnet.co.uk >> http://list.zetnet.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist >> http://www.worldnet.org.uk WorldNET2009 >> > > > > -- > Mindbrix: Web design, building, e-commerce, promotion, consultancy... > Happiness at Work Studios > 1 Green Bank > Wapping > E1W 2PA > nigel at mindbrix.co.uk > www.mindbrix.co.uk > T:+44 20 7480 5638 > M:+44 7905 311 352 > Skype: ntbarber > -- Mindbrix: Web design, building, e-commerce, promotion, consultancy... Happiness at Work Studios 1 Green Bank Wapping E1W 2PA nigel at mindbrix.co.uk www.mindbrix.co.uk T:+44 20 7480 5638 M:+44 7905 311 352 Skype: ntbarber From briggsy_lad at hotmail.com Fri Nov 6 17:45:28 2009 From: briggsy_lad at hotmail.com (Chris Briggs) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 17:45:28 -0000 Subject: [LU] non LU - FSF petition In-Reply-To: <5cb2c0530911060937q46c2175cp27bd38890cc3932f@mail.gmail.com> References: <489721.84645.qm@web86110.mail.ird.yahoo.com> <5800F0449D1847639630136FA7E20D46@RicksDesktop> <5cb2c0530911060853n21144211y14ec466cab7c2b73@mail.gmail.com> <5cb2c0530911060937q46c2175cp27bd38890cc3932f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: A football banning order is usually a supplementary order tacked on to another charge (ie, public order offences like assault, etc). If, when it gets to court the defendant is found Not Guilty and acquitted then the football banning order is not invoked. If they are found guilty of the higher charge then a minimum of 3 years is added to the banning order. The presumption of innocence until proven guilty is still very much in existence in Court. From: Nigel Barber Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 5:37 PM To: Chris Briggs Cc: Rick Duniec ; Leedslist at list.zetnet.co.uk Subject: Re: [LU] non LU - FSF petition Looks like there's no presumption of innocence with respect to banning orders. Nigel. 2009/11/6 Chris Briggs I wasn't bring the presumption of innocence into question. What I was getting it was the article extract in the email did not contain any information pertaining to criminal charges. If criminal charges had been brought in the CPS have no choice in adding a football banning order into the equation, this is why I mentioned that the clubs would have no choice in re-iterating a ban by bringing in one of their own. If no criminal charges have been brought in then the club does seems a little quick in banning folk that are still in the eyes of the law presumed innocent (as I also said in the email) From: Nigel Barber Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 4:53 PM To: Chris Briggs Cc: Rick Duniec ; Leedslist at list.zetnet.co.uk Subject: Re: [LU] non LU - FSF petition Whatever happened to presumption of innocence? Nigel. 2009/11/6 Chris Briggs I haven't read up on this, but the key question to all of this is did the Fans get charged with any offence? If they did then the club has no choice but to ban them (for a minimum of 3 years), if they didn't then the club is over-reacting. -------------------------------------------------- From: "Rick Duniec" Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 12:16 PM To: Subject: Re: [LU] non LU - FSF petition http://www.fsf.org.uk/sunderlandfans/ The now infamous incident that took place at Newcastle?s Central Station on Saturday 8th August between a group of around 40 Sunderland fans and Northumbria Police has gathered a lot of media attention, especially in the north-east. Some supporters are now familiar with the case down to the smallest details ? many however, are not. This is our attempt to create one place where supporters can find all the advice, information and facts they need. If you know anyone who was there send them this link ? we want to hear from them! FOLLOWERS OF EVERY CLUB SHOULD CLICK HERE AND SIGN THE PETITION AGAINST SUNDERLAND'S FAN BANS! IT COULD BE YOUR TURN NEXT. What happened? On Saturday August 8th a group of approximately 40 Sunderland fans arrived at Newcastle?s Central Station following their team?s pre-season friendly with Heart of Midlothian. Four fans were hospitalised with serious injuries caused by police dogs and batons. We believe Northumbria Police over-reacted. Supporters have been injured when not posing a threat to themselves, others or the police. The police have labelled many fans as thugs and hooligans intent on meeting for pre-arranged violence in Newcastle. This is despite the fact that a Tannoy announcement at Hearts told them the train was going direct to Sunderland! The police's PR campaign distorted the facts via selectively edited CCTV footage released to the local media. Fans present have repeatedly requested that ALL footage be released. The police have refused to do so. The eye-witness accounts we have received directly contradict the police?s story - it is not often we get so many fans all independently telling the same story - the police accusations just don?t add up. _______________________________________________ the Leeds List is an unmoderated mailing list and the list administrators accept no liability for the personal views and opinions of contributors. Leedslist mailing list Leedslist at list.zetnet.co.uk http://list.zetnet.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist http://www.worldnet.org.uk WorldNET2009 From david.nattan at btinternet.com Fri Nov 6 17:52:04 2009 From: david.nattan at btinternet.com (DAVID NATTAN) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 09:52:04 -0800 (PST) Subject: [LU] Two Premier Leagues. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <769621.1033.qm@web86102.mail.ird.yahoo.com> --- Absolutley disgraceful? idea. Quite apart from the fact that they are from a foreign country and want to become even more foreign, the hatred and bigotry they bring with them is something we do not need. Just look at this weeks headlines? - Celtic ask for a minutes applause for Remembrance Day to drown out the booing from their own fans (as happened last year) Rangers are charged by UEFA for failing to control their fans (and don't forget the rioting in Manchester last seson. ? Almost every time they make the news it is bad - board members caught singing sectarian songs etc, deaths after the derby game, riots when?Rangers come into England, seson ticket holders burning their tickets because they have signed someone from the 'wrong' religion ? In this country people support a particular team for various reasons (mostly geographical or family reasons) none do so because of the religion they follow. ? KEEP THEM OUT ? Dave Apparently there is a meeting of the Premier League next week and the second "Premier League" is on the agenda. Talk is that Celtic and Rangers would be invited to join. Any thoughts on this anyone?? ??? ???????? ?????? ??? ? _________________________________________________________________ Download Messenger onto your mobile for free http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/174426567/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ the Leeds List is an unmoderated mailing list and the list administrators accept no liability for the personal views and opinions of contributors. Leedslist mailing list Leedslist at list.zetnet.co.uk http://list.zetnet.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist http://www.worldnet.org.uk WorldNET2009 From briggsy_lad at hotmail.com Fri Nov 6 18:05:06 2009 From: briggsy_lad at hotmail.com (Chris Briggs) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 18:05:06 -0000 Subject: [LU] Football Banning orders (Sorry, it's a bit wordy) In-Reply-To: References: <489721.84645.qm@web86110.mail.ird.yahoo.com><5800F0449D1847639630136FA7E20D46@RicksDesktop><5cb2c0530911060853n21144211y14ec466cab7c2b73@mail.gmail.com><5cb2c0530911060937q46c2175cp27bd38890cc3932f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Actually, I am not sure that I articulated the previous response particularly well, and so to quote from my big book of sentencing guidelines (apologies but it is a wordy response but definitely worth a read) Cheers Chris - JPOTL ***************************************************************************************************************** Football banning orders. ? The court must make a football banning order where an offender has been convicted of a relevant offence and it is satisfied that there are reasonable grounds to believe that making a banning order would help to prevent violence or disorder (Football Spectators Act 1989, s.14A). If the court is not so satisfied, it must state that fact and give its reasons. ? Relevant offences are those set out in schedule 1 of the Football Spectators Act 1989; see Annex A (listed below). ? The order requires the offender to report to a police station within five days, may require the offender to surrender his or her passport, and may impose requirements on the offender in relation to any regulated football matches. ? Where the order is imposed in addition to a sentence of immediate imprisonment, the term of the order must be between six and ten years. In other cases, the term of the order must be between three and five years. Annex A Football banning orders ? Football Spectators Act 1989, s.14A Available on conviction of a ?relevant offence?, listed in schedule 1 of the Football Spectators Act 1989. These include: ? possession of alcohol or being drunk while entering/trying to enter ground ? Sporting Events (Control of Alcohol etc) Act 1985, s.2; ? disorderly behaviour ? Public Order Act 1986, s.5 ? committed: (a) during a period relevant to a football match (see below) at any premises while the offender was at, or was entering or leaving or trying to enter or leave, the premises; (b) on a journey to or from a football match and the court makes a declaration that the offence related to football matches; or (c) during a period relevant to a football match (see below) and the court makes a declaration that the offence related to that match; ? any offence involving the use or threat of violence towards another person committed: (a) during a period relevant to a football match (see below) at any premises while the offender was at, or was entering or leaving or trying to enter or leave, the premises; (b) on a journey to or from a football match and the court makes a declaration that the offence related to football matches; or (c) during a period relevant to a football match (see below) and the court makes a declaration that the offence related to that match; ? any offence involving the use or threat of violence towards property committed: (a) during a period relevant to a football match (see below) at any premises while the offender was at, or was entering or leaving or trying to enter or leave, the premises; (b) on a journey to or from a football match and the court makes a declaration that the offence related to football matches; or (c) during a period relevant to a football match (see below) and the court makes a declaration that the offence related to that match; ? any offence involving the use, carrying or possession of an offensive weapon or firearm committed: (a) during a period relevant to a football match (see below) at any premises while the offender was at, or was entering or leaving or trying to enter or leave, the premises; (b) on a journey to or from a football match and the court makes a declaration that the offence related to football matches; or (c) during a period relevant to a football match (see below) and the court makes a declaration that the offence related to that match; 193 ? drunk and disorderly ? Criminal Justice Act 1967, s.91(1) ? committed on a journey to or from a football match and the court makes a declaration that the offence related to football matches; ? driving/attempting to drive when unfit through drink or drugs ? Road Traffic Act 1988, s.4 ? committed on a journey to or from a football match and the court makes a declaration that the offence related to football matches; ? in charge of a vehicle when unfit through drink or drugs ? Road Traffic Act 1988, s.4 ? committed on a journey to or from a football match and the court makes a declaration that the offence related to football matches; ? driving/attempting to drive with excess alcohol ? Road Traffic Act 1988, s.5 ? committed on a journey to or from a football match and the court makes a declaration that the offence related to football matches; ? in charge of a vehicle with excess alcohol ? Road Traffic Act 1988, s.5 ? committed on a journey to or from a football match and the court makes a declaration that the offence related to football matches; ? any offence under the Football (Offences) Act 1991; ? unauthorised sale of tickets ? Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994, s.166. The following periods are ?relevant? to a football match: (a) the period beginning: (i) two hours before the start of the match; or (ii) two hours before the time at which it is advertised to start; or (iii) with the time at which spectators are first admitted to the premises, whichever is the earliest, and ending one hour after the end of the match; (b) where a match advertised to start at a particular time on a particular day is postponed to a later day, or does not take place, the period in the advertised day beginning two hours before and ending one hour after that time. From mikelufc at googlemail.com Fri Nov 6 18:09:50 2009 From: mikelufc at googlemail.com (Michael ALCOCK) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 18:09:50 +0000 Subject: [LU] non LU - FSF petition Message-ID: On the subject on the treatment of the Sunderland fans, I thought you might be interested in seeing the following email from a member of the London branch of the sunderland supporters club.... The key line is "None of the fans recently banned have been found guilty of anything". ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: safcsalondon Date: 2009/11/6 Subject: Ban on Fans To: all.clubs at apfscil.org.uk I'm not sure whether this has been mentioned at previous APFSCIL meetings but there was significant police action at Newcastle Central Station involving Sunderland fans returning from our pre-season friendly at Hearts. Many fans have subsequently been questioned under arrest and in many cases had personal possessions removed from their homes. ?Only one has to date been charged -and that for drunkenness rather than as a result of the main inquiry which centred around violence against the police and others. ?All others under investigation are currently on bail and it is understood that many are about to receive letters advising there will be no further action against them. Despite this current state of affairs, Sunderland Football Club has recently deactivated the season cards of some of those under investigation by the police. ?Others were evicted from the recent Carling Cup Tie against Aston Villa, despite providing no reason on that occasion for penalty. The Terms and Conditions associated with season cards include the paragraph : "Any season card holder found guilty of breaking the ground regulations or acting in a manner the Club considers detrimental to the Club's interest will have their season card confiscated and be banned from attending future games involving Sunderland AFC." Note the words "found guilty". ?None of the fans recently banned have been found guilty of anything. ?They have therefore sought advice from the Football Supporters' Federation who are concerned that such pre-emptive action, if allowed to succeed, could be mimicked by other clubs. ?You can read more about this on the FSF website www.fsf.org.uk where there is also the opportunity to sign a petition asking Niall Quinn to overturn the bans until the full legal process concerning these individuals has run its full course. Can I ask that this be passed onto club website, message boards and email lists with an encouragement to sign the petition. Thanks Ian Todd Sunderland From nigel at mindbrix.co.uk Fri Nov 6 18:15:07 2009 From: nigel at mindbrix.co.uk (Nigel Barber) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 18:15:07 +0000 Subject: [LU] Two Premier Leagues. In-Reply-To: <769621.1033.qm@web86102.mail.ird.yahoo.com> References: <769621.1033.qm@web86102.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5cb2c0530911061015m4819275ew1c8f05f9acf33fcc@mail.gmail.com> So your solution to hatred and bigotry is hatred and bigotry? What you just wrote could easily be applied to our numpties. Nigel. 2009/11/6 DAVID NATTAN > > > --- Absolutley disgraceful idea. Quite apart from the fact that they are > from a foreign country and want to become even more foreign, the hatred and > bigotry they bring with them is something we do not need. > Just look at this weeks headlines - Celtic ask for a minutes applause for > Remembrance Day to drown out the booing from their own fans (as happened > last year) > Rangers are charged by UEFA for failing to control their fans (and don't > forget the rioting in Manchester last seson. > > Almost every time they make the news it is bad - board members caught > singing sectarian songs etc, deaths after the derby game, riots when Rangers > come into England, seson ticket holders burning their tickets because they > have signed someone from the 'wrong' religion > > In this country people support a particular team for various reasons > (mostly geographical or family reasons) none do so because of the religion > they follow. > > KEEP THEM OUT > > Dave > > > Apparently there is a meeting of the Premier League next week and the > second "Premier League" is on the agenda. Talk is that Celtic and Rangers > would be invited to join. Any thoughts on this anyone? > > _________________________________________________________________ > Download Messenger onto your mobile for free > http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/174426567/direct/01/ > _______________________________________________ > the Leeds List is an unmoderated mailing list and the list administrators > accept no liability for the personal views and opinions of contributors. > Leedslist mailing list > Leedslist at list.zetnet.co.uk > http://list.zetnet.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist > http://www.worldnet.org.uk WorldNET2009 > _______________________________________________ > the Leeds List is an unmoderated mailing list and the list administrators > accept no liability for the personal views and opinions of contributors. > Leedslist mailing list > Leedslist at list.zetnet.co.uk > http://list.zetnet.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist > http://www.worldnet.org.uk WorldNET2009 > -- Mindbrix: Web design, building, e-commerce, promotion, consultancy... Happiness at Work Studios 1 Green Bank Wapping E1W 2PA nigel at mindbrix.co.uk www.mindbrix.co.uk T:+44 20 7480 5638 M:+44 7905 311 352 Skype: ntbarber From john at boocock.net Fri Nov 6 18:42:49 2009 From: john at boocock.net (John Boocock) Date: Fri, 06 Nov 2009 18:42:49 +0000 Subject: [LU] Two Premier Leagues. In-Reply-To: <1190826909-1257526711-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-859176365-@bda234.bisx.produk.on.blackberry> References: <1190826909-1257526711-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-859176365-@bda234.bisx.produk.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <4AF46E29.50006@boocock.net> matt at leeds-united.net wrote: > Everything about scotland wants to break away from england. I think you'll find that that is the wish of a noisy minority. None of my neighbours, many of whom can trace their roots back to when this part of the world was ruled by the vikings, would ever want not to be part of the UK. Never Ever be misled by the raised voices of a nationalist Matt. If you scratch carefully enough you'll find a nutter underneath their pristine tartaned surface (see aolso Serbia etc.. etc..). Having said that if someone put up a border post at the Ardullie Roundabout to keep out all the Linda berleeding Snell types who want to retire up here I'm up for that :-) Aunty Betty From sinisterpictures at dogz-bollox.co.uk Fri Nov 6 19:00:27 2009 From: sinisterpictures at dogz-bollox.co.uk (sinister dexter) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 19:00:27 +0000 Subject: [LU] Two Premier Leagues. In-Reply-To: <4AF46E29.50006@boocock.net> References: <1190826909-1257526711-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-859176365-@bda234.bisx.produk.on.blackberry> <4AF46E29.50006@boocock.net> Message-ID: <8FB7E15D-B5CA-4CB3-A6E5-CBAC1925D228@dogz-bollox.co.uk> Actually, it's the same for all the perspiration drenched socks I know too. That's the media for you, blow up and sensationalise, and don't let the facts get in the way. On 6 Nov 2009, at 18:42, John Boocock wrote: > > > matt at leeds-united.net wrote: >> Everything about scotland wants to break away from england. > > I think you'll find that that is the wish of a noisy minority. None > of my neighbours, many of whom can trace their roots back to when > this part of the world was ruled by the vikings, would ever want not > to be part of the UK. Never Ever be misled by the raised voices of > a nationalist Matt. If you scratch carefully enough you'll find a > nutter underneath their pristine tartaned surface (see aolso Serbia > etc.. etc..). Having said that if someone put up a border post at > the Ardullie Roundabout to keep out all the Linda berleeding Snell > types who want to retire up here I'm up for that :-) > > Aunty Betty > ] From mib at myRay.com Fri Nov 6 19:46:00 2009 From: mib at myRay.com (Dr Michael Benjamin) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 21:46:00 +0200 Subject: [LU] non LU - FSF petition In-Reply-To: <5cb2c0530911060853n21144211y14ec466cab7c2b73@mail.gmail.com> References: <489721.84645.qm@web86110.mail.ird.yahoo.com> <5800F0449D1847639630136FA7E20D46@RicksDesktop> <5cb2c0530911060853n21144211y14ec466cab7c2b73@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <57dd23900911061146q48f0bb14x27753482ef06fd2e@mail.gmail.com> Hi I must admit that when we came over for the Wembley Match two seasons back I was amazed at [for me] the massive Police presence. It seemed completely over the top and quite intimidating. I wondered what exactly was the mind set of those who planned it. And how much were they eventually self fulfilling. Michael, Dr Michael Benjamin, Community Psychiatrist ------------------------------- myRay: On-line Self-Help CBT http://www.myRay.com ------------------------------ Mental Health: http//www.MyDoctorExplains.com -------------------------------- Auditing || Quality Control http://www.MyDoctorExplains.com/alamo/ -------------------------------- Blog: http://www.DrMichaelBenjamin.com 2009/11/6 Nigel Barber > Whatever happened to presumption of innocence? > > > Nigel. > > > 2009/11/6 Chris Briggs > > > I haven't read up on this, but the key question to all of this is did the > > Fans get charged with any offence? > > If they did then the club has no choice but to ban them (for a minimum of > 3 > > years), if they didn't then the club is over-reacting. > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > From: "Rick Duniec" > > Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 12:16 PM > > To: > > Subject: Re: [LU] non LU - FSF petition > > > > > > http://www.fsf.org.uk/sunderlandfans/ > >> > >> The now infamous incident that took place at Newcastle?s Central Station > >> on Saturday 8th August between a group of around 40 Sunderland fans and > >> Northumbria Police has gathered a lot of media attention, especially in > the > >> north-east. Some supporters are now familiar with the case down to the > >> smallest details ? many however, are not. > >> This is our attempt to create one place where supporters can find all > the > >> advice, information and facts they need. If you know anyone who was > there > >> send them this link ? we want to hear from them! > >> FOLLOWERS OF EVERY CLUB SHOULD CLICK HERE AND SIGN THE PETITION AGAINST > >> SUNDERLAND'S FAN BANS! IT COULD BE YOUR TURN NEXT. > >> What happened? On Saturday August 8th a group of approximately 40 > >> Sunderland fans arrived at Newcastle?s Central Station following their > >> team?s pre-season friendly with Heart of Midlothian. Four fans were > >> hospitalised with serious injuries caused by police dogs and batons. > >> We believe Northumbria Police over-reacted. Supporters have been injured > >> when not posing a threat to themselves, others or the police. > >> The police have labelled many fans as thugs and hooligans intent on > >> meeting for pre-arranged violence in Newcastle. > >> This is despite the fact that a Tannoy announcement at Hearts told them > >> the train was going direct to Sunderland! > >> The police's PR campaign distorted the facts via selectively edited CCTV > >> footage released to the local media. Fans present have repeatedly > requested > >> that ALL footage be released. The police have refused to do so. > >> The eye-witness accounts we have received directly contradict the > police?s > >> story - it is not often we get so many fans all independently telling > the > >> same story - the police accusations just don?t add up. > >> _______________________________________________ > >> the Leeds List is an unmoderated mailing list and the list > administrators > >> accept no liability for the personal views and opinions of contributors. > >> Leedslist mailing list > >> Leedslist at list.zetnet.co.uk > >> http://list.zetnet.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist > >> http://www.worldnet.org.uk WorldNET2009 > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > the Leeds List is an unmoderated mailing list and the list administrators > > accept no liability for the personal views and opinions of contributors. > > Leedslist mailing list > > Leedslist at list.zetnet.co.uk > > http://list.zetnet.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist > > http://www.worldnet.org.uk WorldNET2009 > > > > > > -- > Mindbrix: Web design, building, e-commerce, promotion, consultancy... > Happiness at Work Studios > 1 Green Bank > Wapping > E1W 2PA > nigel at mindbrix.co.uk > www.mindbrix.co.uk > T:+44 20 7480 5638 > M:+44 7905 311 352 > Skype: ntbarber > _______________________________________________ > the Leeds List is an unmoderated mailing list and the list administrators > accept no liability for the personal views and opinions of contributors. > Leedslist mailing list > Leedslist at list.zetnet.co.uk > http://list.zetnet.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist > http://www.worldnet.org.uk WorldNET2009 > > From david.nattan at btinternet.com Fri Nov 6 20:35:39 2009 From: david.nattan at btinternet.com (DAVID NATTAN) Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 12:35:39 -0800 (PST) Subject: [LU] Two Premier Leagues. In-Reply-To: <5cb2c0530911061015m4819275ew1c8f05f9acf33fcc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <607139.38595.qm@web86112.mail.ird.yahoo.com> What "hatred or bigotry" I am suggesting ????? I think you should re-read what I wrote ! ? All I said was firstly,??I do not see why non English clubs should ply their trade in the English Premier League (no hatred \ bigorty there) and secondly: ?in the case of the Glasgow teams they would be bringing their sectarianism and generally offensive behaviour into an arena where?it ?does not really exist. Again merely stating what I believe to be the facts - no hatred or bigotry on my part there either that I can see. Yes all clubs have 'problem' fans but in England we have done an awful lot to isolate and remove them from the game (Fans against racism \ kick it out etc) - the Glasgow teams cause more problems than most and theri sectarianism \ religious divide brings a new element to it all. I certainly have no hatred towards either team - I had good trips to both Ibrox and Celtic Park in recent pre seasons (and Hibs and Hearts in the past) - I just dislike the idea of support of a team (any team) being based on your religion. ? Dave --- On Fri, 6/11/09, Nigel Barber wrote: So your solution to hatred and bigotry is hatred and bigotry? What you just wrote could easily be applied to our numpties. Nigel. 2009/11/6 DAVID NATTAN > > > --- Absolutley disgraceful? idea. Quite apart from the fact that they are > from a foreign country and want to become even more foreign, the hatred and > bigotry they bring with them is something we do not need. > Just look at this weeks headlines? - Celtic ask for a minutes applause for > Remembrance Day to drown out the booing from their own fans (as happened > last year) > Rangers are charged by UEFA for failing to control their fans (and don't > forget the rioting in Manchester last seson. > > Almost every time they make the news it is bad - board members caught > singing sectarian songs etc, deaths after the derby game, riots when Rangers > come into England, seson ticket holders burning their tickets because they > have signed someone from the 'wrong' religion > > In this country people support a particular team for various reasons > (mostly geographical or family reasons) none do so because of the religion > they follow. > > KEEP THEM OUT > > Dave > > >